Regency money

Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

I don't understand the whole money thing in Regency times. It all confuses me! How much would a woman pay to rent a room in a loding house for a week? How about for one of Gunter's ices? A ball gown? A day dress? A good thoroughbred? Ribbons for the hair? A loaf of bread? What would a woman make a week working for a seamstress? How much for a good pair of boots for a nobleman? A carriage?

Any input here for the cost of anything would be great, or if anyone knows of a good website to find how much things cost back then.

Thanks!!!!!

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

Here's something I did awhile back:

Dowries: Is she or ain’t she an heiress?

In which I take a close look at all the examples I can find in the books of Jane Austen. Three to four times the yearly income of the estate seems to be the amount a good family gave their daughter/s in these books. This is the case both for Miss Darcy and seems to be with the Bingley sisters (Bingley inherits one hundred thousand pounds, but no estate, and we are told he has “five thousand a year” which I can only assume is from interest on said sum).

In real life we know it was often far less. The Duke of Devonshire only gave his legitimate daughters ten thousand pounds each (though he gave his favorite illegitimate one thirty thousand). That's only one-tenth of his purported yearly income. So Harry-O and Little Gee married on about the same amount of money as Mrs. Elton! Of course, they had the Whig connections to help them along as well. One of the most well dowered girls I’ve read about had three different men claiming to be her father, all of whom gave her lavish dowries, adding up to more than one hundred thousand pounds. Needless to say the stain of illegitimacy didn’t hold her back. And there is a story of a very savvy heiress of fifty thousand mentioned in Fanny Burney’s memoirs, who agreed to a run away match, but told the suitor she only had five thousand, not the purported fifty to see what he would do (he fled, “and now she's married to somebody else, and has her 50,000 pounds fortune all safe.”).

Emma

Augusta Hawkins (aka Mrs. Elton) has “an independent fortune, of so many thousands as would always be called ten; a point of some dignity, as well as some convenience”. Ten thousand pounds, while only a third of what Emma will have (which is the same as what Miss Darcy has) is enough to satisfy Mr. Elton, and, seemingly, as a vicar he is good enough for her. And while her dowry is mentioned in a way that implies it is large, she is not called an heiress.

Emma, herself, is called “the heiress of thirty thousand pounds”. She considers herself a step well above Mr. Elton, but not above Frank Churchell, who is a gentleman with expectations.

The often maligned Miss Campbell has “a future of twelve thousand pounds”. Which was enough to induce Frank’s friend, Mr. Dixon into matrimony.

Love and Friendship

An unnamed girl has “four thousand pounds, and will probably spend nearly as much every year in Dress and Public places”. Obviously these girls are being shown as young and frivolous, but I find it interesting that a girl with a dowry of far less than most of the characters we see expects to spend nearly Mr. Bingley's yearly income as simple spending money!

Mansfield Park

Miss Maria Ward (aka Lady Bertram) “with only seven thousand pounds, had the good luck to captivate Sir Thomas Bertram . . . All Huntingdon exclaimed on the greatness of the match, and her uncle, the lawyer, himself, allowed her to be at least three thousand pounds short of any equitable claim to it.”

Mrs. Grant, the vicar’s wife, “Inquire where she [Aunt Norris] would, she could not find out that Mrs. Grant had ever had more than five thousand pounds.”

Miss Crawford “had fixed on Tom Bertram; the eldest son of a baronet was not too good for a girl of twenty thousand pounds”. When Tom doesn’t work out, she’s not above settling for the younger son, but will not accept that he’s to take orders rather than attempt something smarter (much like Edward Ferrars’s mother in S&S).

Persuasion

Anne’s expectations are not large. Neither are those of her sisters. It is clearly stated that Sir Walter “could give his daughter at present but a small part of the share of ten thousand pounds which must be hers hereafter.” So her share is less than four thousand pounds to start with, and he can’t even come up with that.

Pride and Prejudice

The Bingley sisters “had a fortune of twenty thousand pounds, were in the habit of spending more than they ought, and of associating with people of rank, and were therefore in every respect entitled to think well of themselves, and meanly of others”. With a fortune equal to that of Miss Crawford, they certainly put on far more airs.

Of the despised Miss King it is said, “The sudden acquisition of ten thousand pounds was the most remarkable charm of the young lady to whom he was now rendering himself agreeable”. And no one is surprised that a poor army officer should do so.

Miss Darcy. Of her, Darcy says, “Mr. Wickham's chief object was unquestionably my sister's fortune, which is thirty thousand pounds”.

The Bennett sisters (specifically Lydia). Mr. Gardner writes, “All that is required of you is, to assure to your daughter, by settlement, her equal share of the five thousand pounds secured among your children after the decease of yourself and my sister; and, moreover, to enter into an engagement of allowing her, during your life, one hundred pounds per annum.” With 5 daughters, this means the girls are marrying on the promise of a thousand pounds each, far less than the four to six thousand that Austen’s usual formula would have garnered them (Bennett estate is two thousand a year).

Sense and Sensibility

Miss Grey, to whom Willobhey runs after being cut off by his aunt, has “fifty thousand pounds”. I find it somewhat amazing that a girl with such prospects would marry a nearly penniless shmuck, but there you have it.

Miss Morton is mentioned as the “only daughter of the late Lord Morton, with thirty thousand pounds”.

Fanny, the hideous sister-in-law, had “ten thousand pounds”. Not so very great a fortune for someone whose nose is so high in the air.

Northhanger Abby

Miss Drummond “had a very large fortune; and, when she married, her father gave her twenty thousand pounds, and five hundred to buy wedding-clothes”. It is interesting to note that this is the same amount of money that Eleanor’s family has to live on for an entire year, and that the afore mentioned Fanny thins is plenty for four females who keep no company and no carriage.

and that Catherine would have three thousand pounds

A few more side notes on real marriages from the letters of Horace Walpole

“Lord Middlesex is going to be married to Miss Boyle, Lady Shannon's daughter; she has thirty thousand pounds . . .”

“My Lord Coke is going to be married to a Miss Shawe, of forty thousand pounds.”

“Old Somerset is at last dead . . . giving the whole of his unsettled estate, which is about six thousand pounds a-year, equally between his two daughters.”

Curates: How’s a man to live on such a sum?

Mansfield Park

Sir Thomas being happily able to give his friend an income in the living of Mansfield; and Mr. and Mrs. Norris began their career of conjugal felicity with very little less than a thousand a year.

Northanger Abby

A living, of which Mr. Morland was himself patron and incumbent, of about four hundred pounds yearly value, was to be resigned to his son as soon as he should be old enough to take it;

Pride and Prejudice

and if he took orders, desired that a valuable family living might be his as soon as it became vacant. There was also a legacy of one thousand pounds . . . he could ever be in a situation to receive it, and accepted in return three thousand pounds.

Sense and Sensibility

Edward: "He has only two thousand pounds of his own; it would be madness to marry upon that,
The interest of two thousand pounds--how can a man live on it?--
will set down upon a curacy of fifty pounds a-year, with the interest of his two thousand pounds, and what little matter Mr. Steele and Mr. Pratt can give her.--Then they will have a child every year! and Lord help 'em! how poor they will be!--

"It is perfectly true.--Colonel Brandon has given the living of Delaford to Edward." "Really!--Well, this is very astonishing!--no relationship!--no connection between them!--and now that livings fetch such a price!--what was the value of this?" "About two hundred a year."

Edward had two thousand pounds, and Elinor one, which, with Delaford living, was all that they could call their own; for it was impossible that Mrs. Dashwood should advance anything; and they were neither of them quite enough in love to think that three hundred and fifty pounds a-year would supply them with the comforts of life.

nor was anything promised either for the present or in future, beyond the ten thousand pounds, which had been given with Fanny. It was as much, however, as was desired, and more than was expected, by Edward and Elinor; and Mrs. Ferrars herself, by her shuffling excuses, seemed the only person surprised at her not giving more.

With an income quite sufficient to their wants thus secured to them, they had nothing to wait for after Edward was in possession of the living,

YOUR competence and MY wealth are very much alike, I dare say; and without them, as the world goes now, we shall both agree that every kind of external comfort must be wanting. Your ideas are only more noble than mine. Come, what is your competence?" "About eighteen hundred or two thousand a year; not more than THAT." Elinor laughed. "TWO thousand a year! ONE is my wealth! I guessed how it would end." "And yet two thousand a-year is a very moderate income," said Marianne. "A family cannot well be maintained on a smaller. I am sure I am not extravagant in my demands. A proper establishment of servants, a carriage, perhaps two, and hunters, cannot be supported on less."

In Sense and Sensibility we're told that Eleanor's family has 500 pounds a year. Their horrible sister-in-law thinks that plenty for 4 females who keep no company and no carriage. We know from watching them that while it does cover the necessities, it's not able to stretch to beef and sugar. What we're not ever told (that I can remember, anyway) is if the cottage they move to is being lent to them, or if they're paying rent (and what that rent would be). I'd always assumed it was being lent, since it was “offered” by their cousin. The living Edward is given by Colonel Brandon is for 600 pounds a year, which is portrayed as more than adequate for the newly married couple. If I understand how this works, that would have 600 pounds as well as a house of some kind.

In Pride and Prejudice Darcy has 10K a year, and is obviously extremely well off. Bingley has 5K a year and is also obviously a rich man. Mr. Bennett has 2K a year, and is a “gentleman” as he does not work for a living. But with 2K a year, he has not saved to provide a future for his children, so they are managing, with a house they own free and clear, to spend 2K a year on the living expenses for a family of seven. Mr. Bennett agrees to give Lydia and Wickam 100 pounds a year, and comments that he shall be scarcely 10 pounds a year the worse for it (I’m unsure if this includes what it cost to keep Lydia, or simply refers to her pin money).
_________________
-Kalen
w/a Isobel Carr
Ripe for Pleasure, May 2011
Book 1: The League of Second Sons
www.isobelcarr.com

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

Not sure how well this will come though, since it's an excel spreadsheet . . . the first bit is the item, the next is what it cost during the 18th or early 19th century, and the third is what the modern dollar equivalent is:

Item-- Cost-- Current US Cost
Keep a team of four horses 79 pounds $12,396.00
horse 30 G $3,638.00
butter 8d/ lb $5.82
salted butter 12/d lb $9.46
common cheese 4 S lb $34.98
superior cheese 6 S lb $52.46
hen 6d $4.38
duck 8d/ lb $5.82
eggs 1d dz $0.72
Harvest labor (man) 6-8d day $4.38-$5.82
Harvest labor (woman) 4-6d day $2.92-$4.38
Stage RT London to York 4 pounds 11s summer 5 pounds 1 shilling winter $474.00/$526.00
Lodging in London 6 S week $31.26
Hire a horse 12 S week $62.54
Sir Tristrem (novel) 8vo in boards 15s $79.08
The Nature of Things (poem) 2 vo emellished with engraved frontpieces, in boards 4 pounds 4 s $442.80
Joan of Arc (epic poem) 2 vo on boards 12 s $62.54
Poems of Wordswoth, 2 vo in boards 1 pound $105.42
Mysteries of Udolpho 4 vo in boards 1 pound 4 s $126.52
The Romance of the Forest 3 vo in boards 15 s $79.08
A Sicilian Romance 2 vo in boards 7 s $36.90
The Castles of Athlin and Dunbayne, in boards 3s 6p $18.44
Tretise on Formina, Improving, and mamaging Country Residences 2 vo in boards 3 pounds 3 s $332.10
annual tax, per male servant 1 pound
bun at Chelsea Bun House, London; 1d. $0.88
One pound of barley flour; 1.25d. $1.00
One pound of wheat flour; 1.75d. $1.40
One quart of beer 3.5d. $2.82
One pound of treacle(molasses); 3.5d. $2.14
One pound of butchers meat- veal, pork, beef, or lamb; or two mackeral in London 4d. $2.44
One pound of wheat flour; 4.5d. $2.74
One pound tobacco 6d. $3.66
One pound of sugar; 7d. $4.28
one pound of bacon; 8d. $4.88
one pound of butter; 10d. $7.46
a "cream cheese" in York; 1s. $8.90
A chicken in London; 1s.6d. $17.22
A chicken in London; 2s.3d. $21.98
Six pounds of cheese at a Didsbury grocer's 2s.4d. $22.80
One pound of "fine French fruit " in London; 2s.6d. $22.40
One pound of low-quality tea; 4s. $38.06
One pound of brand name cocoa; 4s.6d. $43.46
approx. price of one pound of high-quality tea; 12s. $107.52
average monthly grocers bill for Didsbury labourer; 15s. $142.70
food expenditure for household of Rev. Laurie of Newburn, Fifeshire £59 13s.
Flannel (yd) 2s. 3d. $11.72
Cambric muslin (yd) 4s. 6d. $23.44
Figured cambric muslin (yd) 4s. 6d. $23.44
Checked muslin (yd) 7s. 0d. $36.48
Poplin (yd) 4s. 3d. $22.14
Women’s cloth gloves 4s. 0d. $20.84
Men’s leather gloves* 10s. 6d. $54.70
Cost of having wool cloak made 10s. 0d. $54.70
Pair silk stockings 12s. 0d. $65.52
Pair cotton stockings 4s. 3d. $22.14
Meat (lb) 8d. $3.48
Butter (lb) 12d. $5.24
Cheese (lb) 9 1/2d. $4.12
Salmon (whole fish, lb) 2s. 9d. $14.32
4 small soles 6s 0d. $31.26
Gold locket 18s. 0d. $93.78
Book of music lessons 6s 0d. $31.26
Retail price of Pride & Prejudice 18s. 0d. $93.78
Piano for Chawton 30 guineas $3,282.32
Pair of coach horses 60 guineas $6,564.66
Quartern (4 lb loaf) 2s. 6d. $13.02
Quartern (1800-1804)** 11 3/4d. $6.34
Earl of Sunderland died with a fortune invested in stocks and shares. 75,000 pounds
What a junior court post such as Coffer to the Household paid a year 2,200 pounds
What it cost to build Clarendon House 50,000 pounds +
What Clarendon was sold for to the Duke of Albemarle 26,000 pounds
What the Duke sold Clarendon house for very soon after buying it. 35,000 pounds
Reward for the return of 33 Van Dyck paintings 10 pounds
Price George III paid for a house when the lease upon the ground was up. 28,000 pounds
What it cost to build the Malborough town house 50,000 pounds
Value of Devonshire House, assertained by survey 29,285 11s 1d $4,595,204.40
Value of Chatsworth, assertained by survery 22, 321 10s 6d $3,502,476.60
Value of Chatsworth's farm stock and insrutments of husbandry (indlcued in full value) 4,760 13s 6d $746,998.84
Value of Devonshire House books, prints, paintings (included in full value) 13,311 pounds $2,088,632.60
Value of Chatsworth books, prints, paintings (included in full value) 3,428 pounds $537,888.44
Value of Devonshire plate, linen, china, etc. (included in full value) 6,918 pounds $1,085,505.30
Value of Chatsworth plate, linen, china, etc. (included in full value) 1,721 pounds $270,042.60
Fortune left by Sir Matthew Fetherstonhaugh on the condition that his nephew aquire both a country seat and a baronetcy 400,000 pounds

Lest this be confusing, these are for various years in the 18th century:

Annual income of the Duke of Northumberland 8,706 pounds
Annual income of the Duke of Northumberland 25,000 pounds
Annual income of the Duke of Northumberland 31,000 pounds
Annual income of the Duke of Northumberland 50,000 pounds

Some Salaries

Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's House Steward 80 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's butler 60 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's valet 40 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's clerk of the kitchen 60 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's Housekeeeper 30 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's confectionier 34 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's roasting cook 34 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duchess of Northumberland's personal maid 20 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's lesser servants (maids and footmen) less than 10 pounds
Yearly salary of the Duke of Northumberland's head coachman 30 pounds

More ransom amounts for stuff:

Amount paid for a "dog doctor" to make a house call 5s
Charges for filling the ice house 6 loads of ice at 2s 6p per load = 15s
Cost of plastering the ceileing of the great room 480 pounds
Estimate of the fortune of Sir Lawrence Dundas 800,000 pounds
Shelburne buys Bute house for less than it has already cost to partially build and on the agreeement that it will be completed at no further cost. 22,500 pounds (3000 less than already spent on it)

The expense of travel

A bed at an inn in Italy 2-3 s a night
A dinner at an inn in Italy 5s-6s
Travel in Italy 1s/mile
Cost of a suite at the Hotel de Moscovie in Paris 4 louis d'or a week
Cost of supper at the Hotel de Moscovie in Paris 5 livres
Cost of coffee and tea at Blois 2 livres 18
Cost of oysters at Blois 7 livres
Cost of burgundy or champagne at Blois 2s/bottle
Cost of a meal in France 1d each course (bread, soup, salad, meat, etc.)
Cost of a meal in Paris 3 livre
Cost of a "good" meal in Paris, with wine 2 livres
Cost of burgundy in Boulogne 5 livres/2bottles
Cost of a room in Boulogne 2-3 livres
Cost of dinner in France 2-3 livres
Cost of coffee in France 6 sous
Cost of supper in France 1 livre 6 sous
Cost of breakfast in France 18 sous
Cost of a very good bottle of Bordeaux in France 3s 4d
Cost of an extremely good Moselle in France 2s 6d
Cost of lodgings in Paris 250 livres a month
Cost of buying a coach in Paris 300 livres
Cost of renting a house in Paris 400 livres a month, plus another 100 for use of the kitchen, linen, stables, etc.
Cost of hiring a coach with 2 horses for a month in Lyon 260 livres
Cost of hiring a postchase and 5 horses at Nancy 200 livres
Cost of hiring a carriage in Milan 25 pounds
Cost of hiring a cabriolet and English coach horses at Calis 17 gunneas
Cost to hire a coach, 4 horses, and 2 postillians from Calais to St. Oliver 2 ginnas
Cost of a coach from Calais to Paris 2 louis d'or
Cost of taking the dilligence from Calis to Paris 70-100 livres
Cost to hire a coach from Lille to Paris 3 ginneas
Cost to take the dilgence from Lille to Paris 2 pounds 5s
Cost of a laced hat with a feather 48 livres
Cost of a waistcoat 216 livres
Cost of six pairs of ruffles 84 livres
Cost of a velvet coat and breeches 299 livres
Cost of the embroidery of a "sute of cloaths Gold" 848 livres
Cost of a plain hat 34 livres
cost of laced hat 60 livres
Allowance for living abroad 250 pounds/year
Allowance for living abroad 566 pounds/year
Allowance for living abroad 400 pounds/6months (heavy gambling debts)
Total expenses of an Earl living abroad 3,313 pounds
Cost of a year abroad, which was high enough that the man's parents were upset 1,850 pounds
Allowance for living abroad 1,271 pounds
An amound "full sufcienet for any private gentleman to live there [Lousanne] with credit and reputtation" 300 pounds/year
Allowance made by the Earl of Salisbury for his trip to France 130 pounds/month; 400/month for Paris
Amount the Earl of Huntingdon spent living abroad for one year 5700 pounds
Amount the Scottish archtect Robert Mylne spent living abroad for 4 years 30 pounds/year
_________________
-Kalen
w/a Isobel Carr
Ripe for Pleasure, May 2011
Book 1: The League of Second Sons
www.isobelcarr.com

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:40 am Post subject:

Wow, Kalen, that is great info!!!! Bless you, again, for sharing the wealth with us.
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Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

It's nice to have an idea of the value of things so you don't royally screw up, LOL! I've always been totally gobsmacked by the 800 G. horse in Heyer's Sylvester. I have no idea if that price is a flub, or if she really did mean for the horse to be that outrageously expensive.
_________________
-Kalen
w/a Isobel Carr
Ripe for Pleasure, May 2011
Book 1: The League of Second Sons
www.isobelcarr.com

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject:

You know all this information is great for the writers but I find it helpful as a reader too. I can't tell you how many times I have stopped reading came to the computer and looked something up because I didn't have clue.
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Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

We all started out as readers. And a lot of us who love historical romance are big history buffs too . . . I've learned tons of stuff over the years cause I read it in a romance and then had to know more.
_________________
-Kalen
w/a Isobel Carr
Ripe for Pleasure, May 2011
Book 1: The League of Second Sons
www.isobelcarr.com

Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

Thanks so much for all the information!! It was really nice of you to put together all that info for me!

Upstart Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 8

Wow, that is really thorough. I'm going to have to bookmark this thread!

Upstart Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 24

Wow! Great info...I have to go back and read it all and book mark it myself.
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I told him I was falling.....and he whispered....I have wings

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:09 am Post subject:

Kalen

You're fantastic! niedermayr anbeten

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

I learned the whole spread sheet thing from Candice. niedermayr anbeten

It’s come in very handy.
_________________
-Kalen
w/a Isobel Carr
Ripe for Pleasure, May 2011
Book 1: The League of Second Sons
www.isobelcarr.com

Upstart Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Posts: 1

Thanks to Kalen for all this wonderful information!
Thanks to Keira for letting me know about it!
And thanks to Candice for having the forum and for all the information on your site. This all is a wonderful service to readers and writers in the Regency!
_________________
Diane Gaston
Scandalizing the Ton, October 2008. Excerpt at http://dianegaston.com
"...sensitive, compassionate and sensual romance ..." Romantic Times BOOKreviews

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

All I can say is WOW. I am overwhelmed. Maybe I should try writing a contemporary just so I don't have to think about all this. Smile

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:08 am Post subject:

This is a wonderful resource, Kalen. Thank you!

I'm amazed at the variance of prices from then to today. $22 a yard for fabric is incredibly expensive (I know you can pay that much for some very fancy fabrics, but nothing common), while you could stay for a week in London for under $32. Now it's double that per night! For a cheap place!
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