Naval and Military Matters

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:25 am Post subject:

My dear Wellies,

I'm always astonished by the amount of books they have on Nelson - much more than they have on Wellington, Bonaparte and the Peninsular War combined.

Sigh...Bookstores in my neck of the woods really don't have much on 'such arcane subjects,' they cater more toward what comes out of New York publishing houses. I rely heavily on Amazon.com and Googlebooks etc. for my research needs. "Nelson's Navy" came up through Googlebooks snippets when I was researching a very specific topic...I was able to read the table of contents, index, some pages etc. and decided that was the book for me. What a great service! "Nelson's Navy" would have escaped my notice elsewise. It's sort of along the same idea of offering snippets of music for CD's online--to buy or not to buy, that is the question. And, as Candice and other very savvy authors do, putting the first chapter of their books online to whet our appetites for more (insert emoticon, Oliver with bowl, saying 'Please, sir, I want more.')

But I'm not allowed to buy any more books on the navy - have to resist temptation... have to resist temptation...

LOL...I wish we lived closer together and could ransack--I mean, explore each others libraries--I've been thinking of posing a question in the forum's writing area along those lines but rather from our characters' POV: "What's in your hero's library?" ie. When heroine wanders into that inner sanctum, what is she going to find on the shelves--what are a bit dusty (as in not read) and what are dog-eared? Are there books carefully hidden behind others? etc...With the price of books in Georgian/Regency time, what the hero buys (assuming he has the blunt) might be noteworthy. Granted there would be tomes collected by his ancestors (carefully preserved) but even that would be significant. I fear I do get into the tiny details of my world and characters.

Ah yes, Wellington and his women... I believe it was Mademoiselle George (Josephine Weimer), who said of Wellington's, errm, skills, when comparing him to Napoleon, that he was "de beaucoup le plus fort".

Yes, though I fear from the descriptions from Napoleon's staff and biographer's "anything but endearing" was how his prowess was summed up "...the essential part of the randezvous [not lasting] three minutes....often without so much as unbuckling his sword," ouch! scared

Along with the autopsy results; alas, Wellington didn't have much to mmmmm 'conquer'.

Napoleon's sister Pauline Borghese (but in that case it would have been her who made the first move... - after all, this is the woman, who after posing starkers for the sculptor Canova, when asked if this had not been a little difficult, replied, "Not at all; there was a stove in the studio!") lachtot

I pity the Duchess of Wellington, who joined her husband in Paris and had to put up with all this. When Wellington was sent to Vienna to replace Castlereagh at the Congress, he chose to send his wife home to England...

Poor thing, I would have stayed home to be sure...that just sux! (and not in a good way!) fluchen

However, there were rumours that even during his years in the Peninsula he kept a mistress at HQ (disguised in uniform, no less), although I do not have any concrete references for that. He certainly enjoyed female company, so I wouldn't put it past him.

Now there's a story begging to be written...how intriguingly fascinating that would be from said mistress's POV. read2

Oh, I have heard the story of Napoleon's private parts. Poor man! To have such things discussed (not to mention stolen!) after his death! But, as we know, now detail is too, hmm, small to escape the notice of the whimsical historical researcher...

lachtot

Aye yes, and of course there is the letter he wrote to his brother re: When the poor man finally grasped the fact that Josephine was carrying on affairs whilst he was still besotted with her. As Perrottet's book describes it, "when one of his closest fellow officers broke the sad truth to him in a desert camp....he was a laughingstock. The young general turned pale as a ghost, his secretary Bourienne reported....his features were suddenly convulsed, a wild look came into his eyes, and several times he struck his head with his fists." "Adding salt to the wound,

Napoleon's first private letter on the subject...written to his brother Joseph, was then intercepted by the British navy. The tormented missive was transported to London, published in a bound volume by the gloating British government, and reported word for word in the London Standard newspaper..."

Oh! ouch and ouch and ouch d'oh!

...and that's just wrong...

No wonder he was determined to invade and crush Britain! explodieren

I still have to read the memoirs of Constant, Napoleon's valet de chambre (among other things), but I only have them in French, and that is slow going. I think that there are some rather interesting stories contained in this though.

I am sure of it! I don't see Constant's Memoirs in the biblio-notes; possibly some that Perrottet cites drew some tidbits from Constant...even so, keep me posted study

Quote:
Awwwwww...darn! Love those men in uniform, but imagine the lovely disrobing, as each piece drops away...

Hmmm, for some reason I am most intrigued by waistcoats and, of all things, stocks (those cumbersome things that they wore wrapped around their necks - leather for the common solider, to keep the chin up, poor sods; silk for the officers). Now, waistcoats look smart and everything, but I am not sure why stocks appeal to me... They strike me as rather uncomfortable. Maybe there is a subliminal message in this, but I have yet to find it...

Wow! Great (or salacious) minds think alike! That little item fascinates me...I mean, think about it...after the frock, I 'see' it being ummm...unwound...watching fingers with liesurely expertness unwinding it, or yanking at the damned thing...or even the lady having to give assist...gives a great precurser of what's to come.

Embarassed

Ulp, did I write that aloud? My bad.

Even the leather ones needed to be unbuckled...could be a hindrance in the heat of the moment. Nelson wore a non-regulation leather stock, but I suppose he was given some slack in the situation, being a one-armed Admiral and all--and, well, easy on and easier off?

My hero does ask my heroine how her husband died (he assumes that he was killed in battle), but she tells him more about what happened to the man who killed her husband, which makes him rather afraid of her for a while...

Ooooooo...I like her!

I have actually started my story at the beginning, although I have written some scenes that happen later in the story. I am still working on some of the backgrounds and my timeline as well. At least I have just introduced the "villain" of the piece - not that he is a real villain but more of a rival for my heroine's affections and he can be a little too insistent (plus he is from a different country, which makes things rather complicated).

I've been dickering around with the outline enough to be able to distill each chapter and/or scene into a sentence or fragment. Downloaded a little prog from Nanowrimo recommendeds called YWriter:

http://www.spacejock.com/yWriter.html

Not sure yet if it's a procrastinating time waster or helpful...but began inserting my chapters in wonderful period style (ala Killick):

1. "In which the Bosun finds a Selkie"
2. "In which the Captain has a Strange Dream"
3. "In which Our Heroine has a Strange Awakening"

etc...

YWriter also has areas for introducing characters, timeline, places, etc...

Now I have to go back to do some "serious" research even though I've had a glass of wine or two with dinner...

Ummmm...good luck with that daumen rauf

As always, a great pleasure,

With sincere affection,

Wentworth
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:09 am Post subject:

Restroom Anthology... I like that. I wonder if publishers can be brought around to that idea. We have our Christmas Anthologies, Valentine's Day Anthologies.... Why not an R.A.??

Most Esteemed Moderator Princess,

To be shure, as we all know, Restroom Anthologies need to be short little sections, (no more than two pages, methinks) and fun maybe distracting? reads...I would love to see some Anthologies ala weird, scandalous, or just plain bizarre historical items. Let's face it, it's bathroom reading...But what a great way to learn history! study

By the by, I am realizing that perhaps the tone of Naval and Military Matters has taken a left turn of late. zensur

My bad.

As Moderator Princess, if you feel that it's gone beyond the narrows, please let me know, and I'll strive to steer a straight course.

I am, as always, your most obedient servant,

Wentworth
_________________

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject:

My dear Wentworth,

I feel your pain regarding bookstores... Most of the stroes here only cater towards the popular, and our favourite period of history is not quite included in that. I used to live in London once upon a time, which is an amazing place for books. I sooo miss that these days! But, since many of the books I usually look for are out of print, there's always Abe and Alibris to get my fix from...

I am glad that I am not alone in my fascination with stocks. It is a rather strange article of clothing, but they do look well, don’t they. It has kind of a look of restraint – once it’s removed, what’s to stop the shirt from popping open? Embarassed

Ok, I better stop now. Let’s take a step back from such, hmm, salacious topics… It's getting a tad hot over here... heiss

I have come across a book today (taking a leisurely stroll around Amazon UK, updating The List) that deals with the naval support offered by the Royal Navy to Wellington’s army in the Peninsula – Navy and Army combined in one! hurra

Needless to say that went straight onto the list, and I am only waiting for my birthday next week to see what books my husband has gotten me so that we don’t duplicate... Perhaps you have seen this? It's "Wellington's Navy: Sea Power and the Pensinsular War 1807-1814" by C. D. Hall.

I also found a book about John Colborne, who was Sir John Moore’s military secretary for several years and a close friend. He later commanded the 52nd regiment in Spain and at Waterloo, where he was curiously left out of Wellington's Waterloo dispatch even though the 52nd performed splendidly.

Ah yes, Josephine Bonaparte... I like her. I have actually been to her birthplace in Martinique. The original house has long been destroyed (when Josephine was a child, I believe), but the foundations are still there. The old sucrerie, where the family was forced to live, now houses mainly pigeons. But in the old kitchen annexe they have established a small museum (all museums in Martinique are tiny...), which is quite interesting. What she had to put up with with her Napoleon... Well, once she said about him, "Bon-a-parte bon a rien!" lachtot

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:51 am Post subject:

My dear Wellies,

I used to live in London once upon a time, which is an amazing place for books. I sooo miss that these days!

Back in my (alas!) much younger days, I used to live and work in San Francisco AND worked in a major bookstore. (More alases!) Even with the employee discounts, I couldn't afford the historical tomes I craved. But I could peruse them there. I had such a long wish-list even then and this was in the '70s; before the better resources were available.

But, since many of the books I usually look for are out of print, there's always Abe and Alibris to get my fix from...

If I ever won the lotto I would first build a library (imagine a whole entire room dedicated to books!) and all the books I want to fill it. One can only fantasize... study

I am glad that I am not alone in my fascination with stocks. It is a rather strange article of clothing, but they do look well, don’t they. It has kind of a look of restraint – once it’s removed, what’s to stop the shirt from popping open?

We do have to strive for historical accuracy in such matters...nowadays, regular ties just don't quite 'cut it' and tee shirts-- bla bla

Ok, I better stop now. Let’s take a step back from such, hmm, salacious topics… It's getting a tad hot over here...

LOL--I had realized that maybe my posts were getting a bit outre in a kinky sort of way and wanted to let our lovely mod know that if she had to rein things in, I would not in the least take it amiss. I haven't received any PMs yet on the subject...but... Rolling Eyes

don't wanna neither Wink

Straying a bit from topic, but coming 'round at the end: I must have at least a dozen etymology dictionaries in my reference pile from 1800s on, and am a glutton for words and their histories, but did not have a good grasp of exactly what words (besides glossaries) would be in common usage at the time. I am really going to have to go through the "Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue" more religiously...in the meantime, I ran across this great site:

http://www.io.com/~dierdorf/words.html

The kind man (I'm pretty sure it's a guy) reads regency romances and has included a wonderful page:

http://www.io.com/~dierdorf/nono.html

ie: "You Can't Say That!" of course there's a subsection of words you CAN say too, under "How to Make a Reader Jump."

Now I would love to write a scene where the Capt. can say, with a straight face (no less), "Please, Miss W----, no orgasms on the quarterdeck." d'oh!

I believe the Time Travel genre appeals to me most because of situations like this. In a straight Historical/Regency Romance both ppl would have understood what the hero really meant. But When Worlds Collide (and go boom, to the enjoyment of us all) I could imagine (and write) some very comic scenes.

I have come across a book today (taking a leisurely stroll around Amazon UK, updating The List) that deals with the naval support offered by the Royal Navy to Wellington’s army in the Peninsula – Navy and Army combined in one! hurra Needless to say that went straight onto the list, and I am only waiting for my birthday next week to see what books my husband has gotten me so that we don’t duplicate... Perhaps you have seen this? It's "Wellington's Navy: Sea Power and the Pensinsular War 1807-1814" by C. D. Hall

BTW, Happy Birthday to come!!!

I did run across the book, but since my time period is before 1807 (for this and the next project) I'm trying to keep my research within those parameters...elsewise, I could really bust my budget. I was so happy to be able to narrow the research down to the year (and, of course the years leading up to The Year). I can put aside (for the moment, at least) references that post-date it.

Ah yes, Josephine Bonaparte... I like her. I have actually been to her birthplace in Martinique. The original house has long been destroyed (when Josephine was a child, I believe), but the foundations are still there. The old sucrerie, where the family was forced to live, now houses mainly pigeons. But in the old kitchen annexe they have established a small museum (all museums in Martinique are tiny...), which is quite interesting. What she had to put up with with her Napoleon... Well, once she said about him, "Bon-a-parte bon a rien!"

I like her too...why she married him, is beyond my comprehension.

By the by, did you get to visit Antigua while in those parts? I would sooooo love to get some flavor of the island and of Nelson's Dockyards (not the name then) as that island will come in at the Epilogue --GoogleEarth just doesn't do it LOL--

I had planned to have an 'interlude' there, but realized it would be too long of a respite as the ship had been around the world, and would need some major refitting etc. before making the Atlantic transit. I'm glad I've kept the route more plastic, though it does follow the trade ('tread') winds. I appreciate the organic-ness of ocean travel of the period, the knowledge and experience a captain would need of prevailing winds, weather, etc. etc. at time of year could make the difference between success and disaster--though that's not always a guarantee--Ahhhh, but I ramble, yet I have a weakness for Almanacs, especially Nautical ones. (Thank you googlebooks!)

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject:

My dear Wentworth,

ooh, San Francisco must be nice! I'd love to go there one day! I couldn't work in a bookshop though - I don't know if I'd ever sell anything because I'd be reading all day...

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: Caution Meanders Ahead:

My dear Wellies,

ooh, San Francisco must be nice! I'd love to go there one day! I couldn't work in a bookshop though - I don't know if I'd ever sell anything because I'd be reading all day...

I 'hit' San Francisco during the famed Summer of Love (ahem), but all I got was my first child--everyone went a little crazy then...I even lived in the Haight-Ashbury area for a bit but was pretty weird as I had a job, a (hasty) marriage, and even continued school--never went in for the drug thang that was going on at the time since I had so many new responsibilities. Moved to the Mission District, then the Cole-Parnassus area; all told spent about ten years there before moving north.

So much to see and do in that city...of all I miss the food and the comraderie of the neighborhoods. At one point I lived directly above a French Creperie(sp?), their mushroom crepes were to die for--Ahhhhh, through the fog of nostalgia, those years seemed magical...When I visit my kids (and grandkids) in Sacramento each winter, we usually schedule a day long visit to the city and hit Fisherman's Wharf, some favorite places in Chinatown, and Pier 49...though San Francisco has changed a lot, it's still magical--but I wouldn't want to live there; I'm too used to space and quiet.

I spent a bit of my San Francisco time on Alcatraz (which I suppose gives me some insight into small islands--a very small rock of an island (more like a cold weather counterpart to HMS Diamond Rock--did you see it by the way?) I wasn't a prisoner; Wink

my time on 'The Rock' was during the Indian Takeover in the early 70's. That's where I met my second husband, a Choctaw/Cherokee of the last name of Whitemankiller...I just went by (and still do in some circles) 'Mankiller' and yes, am kin by marriage to Wilma, former chief of the Cherokee Nation...we were all A**-kickers in those days...I still have the capability of astounding some of the young'uns around here with some of my own 'memoirs.' Their lives seem so tame in comparison--my life has become so tame--so, I guess my poor heroine gets to boldly go where no one has gone before in my place.

I fear I wasn't the best of employees at the bookstore for the very same reason. But my museum job...ohhhhhhh yeah! I was older and more appreciative and was a very good little worker-bee. Very Happy

I'd do the same! Well, I'd build a whole big house (the rest of the family has to live somewhere too, although my daughter, who is 4, would probably demand her own library...) - preferrably in the South of France, or perhaps buy an old chateau there with a nice big library already in place - and then I'd stuff it with books! I have it all mapped out in my head - all I need is a winning lottery ticket!

Good luck with that! I've only won $2 and once $5 thus far...I have to admit, I'm pretty much living where I want (finally!); though the ranch could use some serious blunt (am I using that term correctly?) to bring it up to snuff--so much work needs to be done and we're falling behinder and behinder. Update: we found a reliable handyman, and he's right down the road yay!!! hurra

Slowly things are getting up 'to code' so to speak. We even have a large house that's been standing empty for want of needed repairs (and $$) and is serving as a storage locker at the moment as is a portion of our cavernous barn. We are debating whether to make it into an office--which would be great and needed, as it looks like the ranch will become part of a Living History/Restoration/educational project (and to avoid higher property taxes--which is always nice).

In the old days, when this was a working dairy farm, fams were bigger and extended (I'm living in the grandparents' house close to the main house) and there were also dwellings for the farmworkers and their fams, and others. This area is very much a piece of Oregon history--we're involved with an educational grant to bring schoolkids out to the property in participation with living history and restoring the land and watershed back to it's natural state. Maybe I'd better get out my sewing machine and work on some period pieces...Lewis and Clark tromped through here, so (homespun-Frontier) Georgian/Regency attire is usually what is seen in history reenactments.

The ranch is literally littered with old hand tools; and some of the larger pieces in the barn have been promised to a museum but have been too heavy to move yet,--there's an old but working hay bale chute that pulls each bale up to the top part of the barn; when we're putting up the hay, old farmers come from all over to watch the thing work--it keeps breaking down (the chains are ancient) but we've always had many willing hands to fix it. I may have mentioned that it was known and will always be known as the Old Beebe Place (pronounced bee-bee)--the Beebe's being the continuous owners until only recently.

There's particular charm living in historical buildings but it can also be a pain in the patootie(sp?). In Oregon there's trees and trees and trees--wood heat is all we have in the main house from a gigantic woodstove in the kitchen (which is an antique in the 'relic' category). Unfortunately, the house has been added on to since first built, and sort of rambles away from the ahem 'central' heating area--so there are rooms that are always cold no matter what. Some kind soul added the bathroom (loo?) in the fifties or sixties (that's 1950-60 BTW) and electricity went in around the same time. Update: yesterday was the first day we didn't absolutely have to light a fire, Yay Spring! hurra

One of our neighbors is a carriage-maker and takes the carriages out for test runs on the road (giving the kids rides). He has beautiful Clydesdales and does his haying (and ours) using the horses. That's a traffic stopping sight...if we had much traffic on the road lol.

Our original dream is fast becoming reality, we have the community support (neighbors, the schools in the district, and various Oregon and NW groups and US Forestry who are granting the funds and materials for education, work training, Living History, and Restoration of Wetlands etc)...I was involved in Living History from a Native POV down in CA when I worked for the museum--but here I'm living on it, in it--all the good, the bad, the ugly, the cold...the wet... heiss

--Goodness, I've rambled on...I do love this place, but at this point one has to look at it with their "creative" eyes...lots of work ahead for us, lots of potential.

That would be the best quote ever! And in a time-travelling context this could lead to some rather interesting misunderstandings!
Some of the other quotes on the website also are hilarious. It's interesting to see how language constantly changes and words can take on very different meanings over time.

Of course, then the question begs, what word was used to describe the...errr, event? Climax, was not used, I am leaning toward crisis, but will have to check it out. I am just going to have to break down and print out "Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue," for my Restroom Anthology...thank goodness I have a laser-printer...

The history of words fascinates me--linguistics fascinates me, the development of language and permutations hit me the same as when I studied quantum physics--I cannot count the nights I was kept up just trying to grock my brain around it. Indeed, who needs mind-expansion drugs when you have linguistics and Quantum physics?

We haven't been to Antigua - only Martinique, since it's part of France and thus easy to get to for us (no visas or anything), so all I could provide is a description of Martinique.

Did you see the HMS Diamond Rock, did you fly over it? If so, kick down with the description daumen rauf

...I would love for that to be a background scene in Present Day while my poor heroine is on her way to her Destiny.

Ooooo, thanks for the description of Martinique...I lived in Hawaii and Guam in '60's so I could extrapolate from my experiences and memories therein. Hawaii more-so--I really didn't like Guam.

It's a very special place though, very different from anywhere else I had ever been to, and amazingly beautiful (once you get over the sun that cooks you like a lobster, the poisonous trees, the mosquitoes, the bulldozer-sized cockroaches Shocked ...; then you learn to avoid the migrating crabs at night, watch out for the mangoes falling on your head, and you usher lizards into your bedroom so they can eat the mosquitoes...;

LOL...sounds just like what I remember of Hawaii...except I don't remember mosquitos, we kept the geckos for cockroach patrol. So I might be safe in using that setting (5-senses-wise) in remembering my best times on the islands and extrapolating from there.

I didn't get cooked by the sun, though, only seriously dark-browned (overdone?) I go light in the winter and dark in the summer, and the only other result of Native blood is that I have extremely little body hair--absolutely none on my legs, arms or underarms--never had to shave-- etc...hmmmmm. I had lovely thick black hair which has, alas, gone to silver...and I'm what my West Coast Indian friends call, "One of them pasty-faced Injuns from one of them East Coast tribes whose name you can't pronounce."

But in early 60's, when we moved back to New Hampshire from Hawaii we settled in a non-military area and I was enrolled in (yet) another new school. Straight back from the islands, my sibs and I were the only kids of color there--one girl ran up to me asked me where I was from. "Hawaii," I answered somewhat defensively (having had some not so good experiences in the southern states). "Are you a Hawaiian Princess?" she asked all agog...I was charmed and sooooooo ready to rewrite my autobiography ("Princess Caraboo"-style) but with eight siblings I knew I couldn't pull it off for long. Very Happy

I bring this up, because I am seriously giving thought to tossing one more monkey wrench into my story (should I...shouldn't I...that is the question....what would happen if?). What if my heroine was bi-racial? Talk about complications! But bi-racial, is something I know...(and, of course, it being now, 'cool,' thanks to our new President, and, at the same time, at least in CA and OR etc. barely noticed--not like when I was growing up). Strange, my daughter who is lovely and a lovely brown, in CA is tagged as Hispanic, etc. and in Utah, ppl assumed she was Portuguese...I had the similar experiences depending where in the country/world we were, and the world of my childhood was far less sophisticated as it is nowadays. I heard: N-word, Spic, Skin, Wetback, Gypsy(?!) etc...--that's why 'Hawaiian Princess' was so refreshing...the storytelling part of me was working overtime with...What if?

and then you fall in love with the place... actually, if I win the lottery, I think I need to buy a house in Martinique!). I want to go back there. I have yet to climb Montagne Pelee (volcanoes are another passion of mine) and there is a lot of the military hisory to explore. St. Lucia would also be interesting - for research purposes, after all Sir John Moore was governor there for a little while (as good an excuse as any...). Well, and while we're there, a bit of island hopping...

That would be wonderful...I envy you--we just had some friends of a friend move from OR to Virgin Islands this summer--the other half of the http://talklikeapirate.com/ no less. The one that's still in Oregon, Mark Summers (Cap'n Slappy) works with troubled teens and that's how my roomie met him, she was working in Special Ed department of a local High School...He is a fun and funny, funny guy! There's a special pirate day in Lebanon, OR. every year where pirates take over all of downtown (not a big feat) and have a fight with the lobsterbacks, then everybody rolls into the grog shops and celebrates...lots of reenactors in this neck of the woods--some (alas) take it much too seriously and some just have fun with it.

Geology has always fascinated me, up in New England, many of the landforms are from created from the last continental glacier...the islands are volcanic (of course) and the west coast is a good mixture. I tend to stay away from Volcanoes, I'm leery of things that blow up...My time in San Francisco and the Northbay has inured me to earthquakes--though they are always startling during their occurance. I know that the Caribbean Islands had (have) a lot of earthquake activity as well as Volcanoes, for they are on a very active fault there.

If you like volcanoes and ever get a chance, visit Yellowstone--it's like another world... Ahhh here ya go: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/

They say, when Yellowstone blows; well I believe that would be more an apocalyptic tale than anything else...and those types of stories leave me with the geewillikers....give me HEAs any time, thank you! study

I find Napoleon and Josephine's relationship very intriguing. It seems that at the start it was a marriage of convenience for her (security for her and her children) and a love match for him (although he also had a politcal reason - he did nothing without at least one eye on his chances for advancement).

One wonders if this is a planned or just an inborn trait of politically minded ppl. In that very few who rise to the top have wives (spouses nowadays) that do not seem 'politically motivated' choices.

But she seems to have come round in the end, at least to some degree - and then he divorced her. But he still could not completely give her up, and it seems that his new wife, Marie-Louise, was even a tad jealous. I wonder if he had been any happier had he stayed with Josephine?

Well if it's any consolation for Josephine, "Napoleon and Josephine" is what the general public remembers, Not "Napoleon and Marie-Who?" I fear toward the end, Napoleon was just not a happy puppy period. "Napoleon's Privates" wasn't all about Napoleon, of course, but had about 5 different sagas spaced throughout the book, the last one (appropriately) on his autopsy--which intrigues me--especially what kind of disease could he have been suffering that caused Dr. Walter Henry to write that "the body was plump and 'effeminate,'" he goes on the compare Napoleon's privates to a woman's--adding that they were "remarkably small, like a boy's."

"--medical historians...note that in his midthirties, Napoleon quickly changed from a trim, handsome, Byronic figure with rich flowing hair to the corpulent, balding character who waddled about in a gray military coat..." also his "white skin without a single hair...Breasts plump and round..." Perrottet goes on to write, "A whole shopping list of arcane disorders has been produced to explain Napoleon's ever-morphing appearance. ...hyperpituitarism....or maybe hypergonadism....(or) more exotic diagnoses: Frolich's syndrome, anyone? Pituitary eunuchoidism?)"

Okay maybe I'm weird, but since my heroine is a medico (and I did run a small medical center in my past and checkered history) these things intrigue...as does the Heroic Medicine procedures of the time, and small little questions like did mercury injected up the (ouch heiss

) really cure syphilis? Inquiring minds wanna know...

Wow, did I wander all over the map today...sorry about that...researching is one thing, but hunkering down and applying said research to writing the story is firing up the synapses more than usual and my thoughts are harvesting all sorts of odd little tidbits. You know how it goes, Hawaii and geckos and our Siamese cat who thought they were the tastiest tidbit on the planet, and etc...and that's close to fifty years ago...but short term memory is a whole other ballgame (as they say).

I am, as always, your most obedient servant,

Wentworth
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject:

Gosh, you two, I'm loving your back-n-forth chats. You know some day we'll have The Collected Memories of Wellies & Wentforth out on the shelves.
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Medieval & Regency Writer
keirasoleore.blogspot.com

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject:

Dearest Keira,

I hope we are not getting too carried away and off topic for your lovely board! Embarassed

If you feel we are straying too far, please rein us in!

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:36 am Post subject:

My dear Wentworth,

your musings are as always delightful and very informative! Your ranch sounds great. You should dress up in period garb and show the schoolkids what life was like on a farm way back when. Do you have a lot of land? I live in farming country in Ireland, so there's lots of space around us, but it's nothing compared to the big open spaces (or woodland) that you must have around you. I'd love to live in an old house, despite the amount of work they often need. Our house is actually a thatched cottage, but it's not even 20 years old. Our house and the ones next to it were built under a scheme to teach people more traditional building methods.

HMS Diamond Rock? Do you mean Le Diamant? We didn't fly over that, but we went round it on jetskis... noch cooler

It's a strange thing, next to an island so lush and rich in colour, where you don't see cliffs or anything but only gentle rolling beaches (that look almost exactly like picture postcards) to suddenly come up on a big ugly rock like that. It's a bit green, ok, but mostly it's just rock, all jugged edges. It looks very forbidding, but I think that your jetski instructor said that there sometimes are some crazy people who climb it (not much of a mountaineer, the jetski instructor).

One thing I remember about Martinique is how quickly it got dark. No long sunsets (or sunrise, come to that). The sun just hit the water and you could literally watch it disappear. Seriously, it dipped in there so fast I expected steam to be coming up! And then it was dark. The creoles of Martinique, btw, refer to the tourists as "ecrevisse" (kind of small lobsters), because they arrive white and then they turn a nice shade of red... People from mainland France for some reason are called "z'oreilles" (the ears), but I have no idea why.

I am actually wondering where exactly ships anchored off Martinique at the time - around Fort-Royal (nowadays Fort-de-France) or St. Pierre (a bit further north right at the foot of Mt. Pelee - not such a good idea, as proven in 1902)? St. Pierre was the older and at the time larger city, but Fort-Royal had a defensive fort (Fort St. Louis), so I would guess merchants went to St. Pierre, Navy ships went towards Fort Royal or perhaps a bit further south towards Le Diamant or Ste. Anne.

I am a regular visitor on the USGS and Smithsonian websites for the Global Volcanism Program - I look for the weekly activity updates to see which volcanoes are blowing. I'd love to visit Etna and Stromboli because they are quite active but on a relatively small scale.

Incidentally 1816 was known as the "Year without a Summer", and this was due to a series volcanic eruptions between 1812 and 1815. This caused crops to fail and led to food shortages. And with the Napoleonic Wars just over and Europe still recuperating from the repercussions, this caused rather big problems all round. I would say that America was similarly affected.

Napoleon's illness is certainly a big topic of speculation, as is his death. There are some who are still convinced that he was poisoned, although it's widely accepted now that he was not. And then there's the whole conspiracy theory regarding his burial (that he isn't really in that big coffin in Les Invalides but that the English had his body shipped to London etc. irre

). The latter goes right in the same folder as the story of Michel Ney being saved from execution (by Wellington, no less - the old Masonic connection) and escaping to America (as much as I would have liked for Le Rougeaud to escape, it's not likely that that ever happened)...

Josephine certainly has entered into the Napoleonic myth more than any of his other women. When he was on Elba and there were rumours that he might return, there were Bonapartist prints, one with violets that disguised the portraits of Napoleon, the King of Rome and Josephine, like Josephine was actually the King of Rome's mother. Marie-Louise was kind of written out of the myth already. Josephine was seen as Napoleon's loyal companion, and despite everything that went on between them she is the one that qualifies as his great love (insofar as Napoleon could love anyone).

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject:

Dear Keira,

How kind of you to say so...and as my comrade in arms has said, do tell us when these 'memoirs' become too outre. Wink

Your servant,

Wentworth
_________________

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject:

Dearest Wellies,

Your ranch sounds great. You should dress up in period garb and show the schoolkids what life was like on a farm way back when.

That is part of the plan--but hopefully with the local schoolchildren's participation. I would love the anachronisticity of sitting at my computer in period garb--and, of course, a bonnet or cap to top it off!

Do you have a lot of land?

We only have 52 acres, but lots of mini-ecosystems on it...which is why the forestry dept. and University of Oregon Ag dept are excited. We even have a large field of camas http://www.salemhistory.net/natural_history/camas.htm

--Haven't tried any, but I have had poi and acorn mush--traditionally cooked they are delicious--I think it's the slightly scorched flavoring of the wood ashes lol. I've also had microwaved acorn mush (tasted like wallpaper paste heiss

).

Our house is actually a thatched cottage, but it's not even 20 years old. Our house and the ones next to it were built under a scheme to teach people more traditional building methods.

Now that! has got to be fantastic! I would love to live in a thatched cottage! You must upload some pictures somewhere (hint, hint!) Very Happy

HMS Diamond Rock? Do you mean Le Diamant?

No, LOL I mean, HMS Diamond Rock...

http://www.allatsea.net/specificissueeditorial.php?featureid=741

But thanks for "Le Diamant" I couldn't find it in Google Earth (I'm so clueless sometimes Rolling Eyes

)...oh, By the by, if you don't have Google Earth, I cannot begin to sing the praises...anyone going a-journeying (especially writer-type anyones) really really must gotta have it! http://earth.google.com/ 'nuff said on that.

We didn't fly over that,....snippt

Thanks for the description! That's exactly what I was looking for. Now looking at some of the uploaded pictures on GoogleEarth too.

our jetski instructor said that there sometimes are some crazy people who climb it ...

--Like Capt. Hood's first Lieutenant and twenty British seamen LOL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Rock

One thing I remember about Martinique is how quickly it got dark. No long sunsets ...

Yes, it was the same in Hawaii and Guam...a phenomena of the tropics; has to do with the directness of the sun's rays. But quite strange to those of us used to northern latitudes. I remember lots of rainbows in Hawaii too--but Hawaii is known for being quite mild for the tropics, being in the trade winds, I believe--not much variations with the seasons at all.

Seriously, it dipped in there so fast I expected steam to be coming up! And then it was dark.

Nice description! For writers whose locale is in the tropics, (Like myself) this is an important piece of info...no long, lingering sunsets (I have seen that)...the sunset is there and gone! Just like that--poof Exclamation

The creoles of Martinique, btw, refer to the tourists as "ecrevisse" (kind of small lobsters), because they arrive white and then they turn a nice shade of red...

Ohhhh, that's harsh! d'oh!

I picked up the Hawaiian lingo quickly (but as quickly forgotten it) and then turned around and called the newcomers, "haoles." I was such a snotty-naughty brat of a teenager! We lived on the naval base and me and me mates would always get in trouble with the Shore Patrol...and being giggly school girls always got away with whatever we weren't supposed to be doing (usually being in 'restricted' areas [which always seems like 9/10s of military bases], or running across the airfield to get to the beach). Shore Patrol was always marines who were the most polite young men, nattily dressed, you can well imagine how we batted eyes and flirted outrageously whilst 'in custody'--ie. getting a cool ride back to dependent's housing in their jeeps. On the poor guys side, they were afraid of us because I always enlisted a couple officer's daughters in our escapades--that was a sure safety ticket--you never know when you might get some old fart of a sergeant with teenage daughters of his own. In that case we could fall back on the hierarchical system which is alive and well in the military, extending even to the fams. Times were far more innocent back then.

People from mainland France for some reason are called "z'oreilles" (the ears), but I have no idea why.

That is ....ummmmm...wierd...but there's got to be a story behind it (somewhere/somewhen).

I am a regular visitor on the USGS and Smithsonian websites for the Global Volcanism Program - I look for the weekly activity updates to see which volcanoes are blowing. I'd love to visit Etna and Stromboli because they are quite active but on a relatively small scale.

I remember when Mount St. Helens blew up here on the NW coast...caused quite a stir, and of course the main topic of geology courses from then on, was Volcanism--we live close enough to the Three Sisters to be nervous if they decide to blow. Tornados and volcanoes I don't like to be around, but am fascinated by them, so of course, they are in my WIP.

Incidentally 1816 was known as the "Year without a Summer", and this was due to a series volcanic eruptions between 1812 and 1815. This caused crops to fail and led to food shortages. And with the Napoleonic Wars just over and Europe still recuperating from the repercussions, this caused rather big problems all round. I would say that America was similarly affected.

The Tambora Volcano? Yes, New England barely limped through 'the Year without a Summer' ...doing a bit of googling: computer

ah..."New England and Europe were hit exceptionally hard. Snowfalls and frost occurred in June, July and August and all but the hardiest grains were destroyed. Destruction of the corn crop forced farmers to slaughter their animals. Soup kitchens were opened to feed the hungry. Sea ice migrated across Atlantic shipping lanes, and alpine glaciers advanced down mountain slopes to exceptionally low elevations." http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/climate_effects.html

BTW, the paintings of the sunsets from the Krakatau eruption in 1883 that are on the website are fantastic--I always thought the artists were taking 'artistic' license whenever I saw them before!

Okay, I admit, I do love geology...

The latter goes right in the same folder as the story of Michel Ney being saved from execution (by Wellington, no less - the old Masonic connection) and escaping to America (as much as I would have liked for Le Rougeaud to escape, it's not likely that that ever happened)...

LOL...you do make me google sometimes! I didn't know who Michel Ney was until now...Wellington was a mason? Wow! I learn something new every day! Another potential fascination for me...the Masons--I had played with the thought of making my hero a mason as was the heroine's father...might have been an interesting bio to follow up on. But things were complicated as it was. Even though, I haven't completely given up the idea. Wink

Quote:
What if my heroine was bi-racial?

I would assume that her life would be harder as people would be more likely to place her in the lower ranks of society, for example they might think that she is an illegitimate child, e. g. the result of a liaison of a white man with a servant or even slave.

--Yes, just what I was thinking--it would place her more under the hero's "protection" and we all know what that means

...hmmmmm

...but our poor heroine might not realize what that means. She might assume he's being altruistic out of the kindness of his heart...(plot bunnies scurrying about). As her contact with the world during most of the book is confined to the ship, how the Capt. "sees" her and treats her would influence how those under his command would treat her.

She could be a "Hawaiian princess" for all they know.

From what you have written, I gather that your heroine is the time-traveller in your story (correct me if I'm wrong),

You gather correctly, ma'am...

so she would not have a family present to protect her and give her some kind of respectable background, unless she could bluff her way through that and invent herself a family. It might give the story a totally different angle, depending on how far you would take this.

When the idea of the story first came to me, I discussed it with a friend of mine (who was stationed in England at the time) and she pointed out that given the circumstances of her appearance in the story; said heroine could very likely be mistaken for being mmmmmm...NOT a lady. That it would be most important for her to place herself in the position of being a respectable lady ASAP so the Capt. wouldn't demote her (so to speak), make a servant of her or toss her to the men lol...(my friend is more into Pirate romances fies

) So I have a thick file of diaries and journals and what is to be expected of Ladies of the time period; under the heading: "What would Jane Austen do?"

Heroine had a very privileged upbringing--When I was creating her bio and comparing it with the bios of "real Ladies" of Regency period, I realized that most of us nowadays would fall short with the education we receive in the public school systems (at least in the US). I know that for the most part, 18th/early 19th century middle and upperclass women were given a modicum of learning, arts, etc. but even that was quite demanding. The higher the social scale, the more formidable the requirements for a "real" or upper-class lady's education.

To pull off being a "real" (respectable) lady of the time (whether she is bi-racial or not) she would HAVE to have had a highly privileged and educationally demanding childhood.

My friend had also brought up the difference in language/accents suggesting that heroine should be a Bostonian...I'm more inclined toward Philly myself for reasons in the Hero's background. Heroine is an American, which can account for some ummmm...discrepancies (and possible comedic errors) but when I was younger I could pick up lingo (accents) within a week of moving to a new area--my highly educated and well-travelled heroine is certainly more talented than I.

She could in all truthfulness say that her family is in Philly and her friends (who she was travelling with) are back in the Caribbean--[only 200+ years removed, but she leaves that little bit of info out]...how she got to the Pacific, she (again in all truthfulness) does not know. The capt. guesses perhaps pirates or slavers and concludes that's why she doesn't remember...But one thing I keep running into is that obviously she does not have a passport or papers or such...I've been doing research on the American Embassies and am on the verge of writing to the US Department of State and asking them what an American female traveler of 1803-4 would need to have for a voyage to the Caribbean--what American embassies ("dens of spies" our hero calls them) were in place at the time and what kinds of services/IDs/papers did they provided to American citizens/travellers. Of course, if she is bi-racial, having these non-existent papers would be of the utmost importance. Oh my god!

Complications and Impediments to the HEA to be sure...it will be a real challenge to pull it off under 120,000 words heiss

I am, as always, at your service,

Wentworth
_________________

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:32 am Post subject:

My dear Wentworth,

glad to be of help re. Le Diamant - or to give its full name Le Rocher de Diamant. Isn't it a tad strange to declare a rock to be a ship? I mean, a ship you'd expect to be somewhat mobile and afloat - a rock not so much... At least they had imagination... irre

It must be great to be surrounded by your own fields. We have a nice garden, but it's not huge. I'd love to have an acre or two so that I could keep a few pet sheep and maybe a donkey, but for the time being we have to make do with having some sheep as our neighbours occasionally - in the field behind our house. Very Happy

Before Tambora there were some other volcanoes that erupted between 1812 and 1814, which already released a good deal of ash into the atmosphere. Tambora kind of finished it off then. Switzerland apparently was hardest hit in Europe, having no access to the sea and thus no way to supplement supply by fishing, they depended solely on their crops, which largely failed... I think there are some references to this in Mary Shelley's writings and Byron also mentioned it.

I am fascinated by volcanoes, especially Montagne Pelee in Martinique and its erruption of 1902, which destroyed the city of St. Pierre and killed approximately 28,000 people in a pyroclastic flow (this type is known as a Pelean erruption since then). Only took 4 minutes to wipe out the whole city. Some ships at anchor in the harbour were also destroyed. The ruins of some of the buildings, like the theatre, the police station, have been preserved and can be visited. Makes me shudder to think of but I still feel drawn to them.

Marshal Michel Ney is one of my favourites in the French marshalate. He wasn't the cleverest of guys (had he only insisted on a court-martial instead of a trial by the chamber of peers...) but he was brave to a fault (Napoleon called him "the bravest of the brave"). I can understand why he went back over to Napoleon during the Hundred Days, even after promising the French king to bring Napoleon back in an iron cage. That was inevitable. But numerous others changed sides too, and none of them were executed for it.

Ney was a Mason, so was Wellington, Sir John Moore too (don't know about Graham Moore, but he may well have followed in his brother's footsteps), and Napoleon may or may not have been one (there is some dabate about that). Many of the other generals and marshals were Masons as well. It seems to have been quite common that gentlemen of a certain social status or rank joined the Masons. It did not inhibit their willingness to fight against each other, though, so it doesn't appear to have had great effect on them in day-to-day life. Of course, the Masonic connection and the appearance of "Peter Ney" in America gave rise to the story that Michel Ney was saved from execution. The story doesn't tell us how exactly this was achieved, as someone was most decidedly shot that day in the Jardin de Luxembourg - some suggest blanks were fired (where did the blood on the corpse come from then? and he would have to have been in on the scheme then, which I doubt he would have consented to) or that the person who was shot actually was another man (Ney's appearance was quite distinctive...). It's a nice story anyhow - and it could play into a sequel of my book, if there ever is one, as my heroine is quite fond of brave soldiers, and she would definitely resent having them made scapegoats by scheming politicians. And she would be just daring and foolish enough to try to mount a rescue. d'oh!

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:24 am Post subject:

My dearest Wellies,

glad to be of help re. Le Diamant - or to give its full name Le Rocher de Diamant. Isn't it a tad strange to declare a rock to be a ship?.... At least they had imagination...

I think it's awesome! Shows that a streak of whimsy ran in some RN circles...usually one thinks of the Admiralty being so starchy and sober, but this.... hurra

for them!

It must be great to be surrounded by your own fields. We have a nice garden, but it's not huge.

We need to get our garden in--have compost up the wazoo--and I want to try some new herbs, especially medicinal ones that my heroine would use.

I'd love to have an acre or two so that I could keep a few pet sheep and maybe a donkey, but for the time being we have to make do with having some sheep as our neighbours occasionally - in the field behind our house.

Sheep we have (not the brightest creatures on the block, but were bummer lambs and love company), goats too (bottle fed too and quite loving--like big dogs)--the goats eat down all the blackberry vines which are a big problem in this area. People raise goats and rent them out for that purpose. Ours are milk goats in case we ever want to go that route. Llamas seem popular in this area, since they are no-brainers as far as care goes as long as there's land. Our problem is that we started with two and now have five (we've got to get that male fixed! d'oh!

)

I am fascinated by volcanoes, especially Montagne Pelee in Martinique and its erruption of 1902, .... . Makes me shudder to think of but I still feel drawn to them.

Yes, I found myself morbidly fascinated and reading up on everything I could about Montserrat when the volcano's activity was at it's ummmmm...peak?

It seems to have been quite common that gentlemen of a certain social status or rank joined the Masons. It did not inhibit their willingness to fight against each other, though, so it doesn't appear to have had great effect on them in day-to-day life.

I saw a program on the History Channel on the history of the Masons. It attempted to take the mystique out of it and went into detail re: 18th and early 19th century (especially in America)--more or less gentlemen's clubs...which made me go...hmmmmm...if my Capt. was of the middle-->upper class would he have joined the Masons, would his family have been Masons...it seemed like the thing to do then. And would it have had any effect on his career, or his connections with said career? How do you find out if a certain person is a mason...quickly--I don't want to have to add a whole new file to my research list...it would probably make or break the 'question' (so to speak) if Captain's patron is a mason.

Of course, the Masonic connection and the appearance of "Peter Ney" in America gave rise to the story that Michel Ney was saved from execution. .... and he would have to have been in on the scheme then, which I doubt he would have consented to)

--Unless there was a compelling reason for him to consent to it...as a writer perhaps you could 'kick it around?' daumen rauf

I don't 'see' a man like that becoming a school teacher though, going to America, maybe...schoolteacher....less than maybe (unless, again, a storyteller might be able to work with this one.)

It's a nice story anyhow - and it could play into a sequel of my book, if there ever is one, as my heroine is quite fond of brave soldiers, and she would definitely resent having them made scapegoats by scheming politicians. And she would be just daring and foolish enough to try to mount a rescue.

Oh I do love those sequel bunnies! noch cooler

Quote:
So I have a thick file of diaries and journals and what is to be expected of Ladies of the time period; under the heading: "What would Jane Austen do?"

LOL! A lot of what makes a lady is in the education. If your heroine speaks some foreign languages (French and Italian perhaps) it might help. Does she have musical talent or does she paint? I would also think that how a woman behaves in general, how she speaks etc. that could give your captain a clue as to her being from a good family.

Yes, she's been adopted (many of the adopted kids I know are bi-racial or children of color--I'm thinking Eurasian at the moment, since my hero is an Orientalist and she would intrigue him to no end, until, that is, she opens her mouth Rolling Eyes

--probably would still intrigue him, I daresay.) Her adopted father was a physician from an old Philadelphia family and her grandmama (accent on the last syllable, if you please) was a somewhat snobbish American Blueblood who insisted on sending her to the finest schools--heroine had au pairs (an Irish one when she was young taught her how to knit, but heroine also picked up an Irish accent, to grandmama's horror lolol)...so heroine was sent to England to get rid of said accent and there met the descendent of our hero--complicated enough?? heiss

--She does speak French (of course) and other languages, especially as her career has taken her around the world. And yes, as much as she disliked it, she was trained (as per grandmama's orders) on the harp and other instruments--I used to play the piano and harp and took singing lessons (and was on a fencing and swimming team to boot, woohoo!); and of course, I always took an art class each semester at University to keep me sane--and I'm no one special--since heroine IS someone special there's no reason she can't do all that and more! Very Happy

Our good neighbors and personal animal vets (who make house calls here at the ranch) had just returned from Cambodia when we moved up here--they were members in the organization, Veterinarians Without Borders--they've got great stories! I've been picking their brains and taking notes for my heroine's background (Physicians Without Borders). She's quite the adventurer.

But as much as she chafed against grandmama's imperious orders re: her education etc. heroine really comes to appreciate it. So, yes, she can easily 'act' the lady if needed. By the by, some time back, I had run across the term: "Texas dip" and had to youtube it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlBSd5LEvZs

Shocked

Pretentiousness is alive and well in the US of A...and a Waldorf 'coming out' is EXACTLY something heroine's grandmama would orchestrate and demand of her...(though, *sigh*, without the Texas dip, lol)...so she has that fluchen

experience in her background too.

[While you're on youtube you might like to check out a slideshow I uploaded re: the newest additions to our animal menagerie. Caution excruciating cuteness ahead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7KpjqcrjMA

--the kids found them in the chicken coop abandoned by their mom...more bottle-fed babies *sigh*]

My heroine has the opposite problem. .... And despite everything she did there, everybody still wants to see her as a lady, when she is most insistent that she is not.

Wow! I like that premise...appearances being deceiving and all! But can't she/doesn't she use that to her advantage? I would LOL.

Quote:
The capt. guesses perhaps pirates or slavers and concludes that's why she doesn't remember...But one thing I keep running into is that obviously she does not have a passport or papers or such...

If the captain assumes that your heroine was taken by pirates or slavers, would he even expect her to have papers? I wouldn't think that either pirates or slavers would care much for such thing or perhaps even make sure that they get tossed.

Ahhh, forgive me, I left an important part out; No, he would not expect her to have any papers, especially as she's found au natural (well swimsuit and scuba gear)--but to the time period, that's naked. At some point (her last 'remembered' port of call) he would expect that there would be some records of her--either with the embassy or port authorities-- to back up her claims. I'm not sure where passenger lists, etc. would be...even so, of course, there are no records...I know this sounds trifling, but it leads to the black moment and I gotta get it right.

Quote:
it will be a real challenge to pull it off under 120,000 words

Tell me about it! I have written over 10,000 words, all necessary to the story, and nothing much has really happened... Well, I'll worry about that in the end, once I've gotten through the first draft... It will probably run to around 300,000 words or so, knowing me

Oh I fully expect my first draft to run that long too--cutting out scenes etc. will be like cutting off my arms or legs...well, maybe not so dire, but still will feel like it.

I do like my beginning (after many false starts that ran for pages and pages and heiss

more! pages)...my main problem is backstory--both heroine's and hero's...and of course, all the supporting cast, and description of the ship and sea and oh, where to draw the line between enough and, "ENOUGH! Already!".

With warmest regards,

Wentworth
_________________

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject:

My dear Wentworth,

sheep are a bit dumb, LOL, but they are so cute. And, ooooh, baby goats! I want one of those too! At present we have no animals at all. We had a cat, but unfortunately she died last year. I'd love to have a dog and a cat again (my daughter wants a tarantula - over my dead body!) but at the moment we don't want to adopt any animals since we might move to France, and going from a house with garden to (most likely) an apartment in Paris wouldn't be nice for the animals. Those foundling kittens are too cute though! I just want to cuddle them! Please give them a big cat cuddle from me! hallo

Regarding Freemasonry, there doesn't seem to be a complete list of Freemasons anywhere. If your captain's mentor is someone famous, it might be possible to find out by googling, otherwise it might take a good bit of detective work since they could have joined anywhere and anytime. Since you have mentioned Nelson (and I can't think of that many famous sailors) here's a link on Nelson and Freemasonry:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/nelson_h/nelson_h.html
Sometimes the information can be misleading, though. Somewhere I found a reference that Sir John Moore was a member of a lodge in Scotland, but when I contacted them to confirm, they went back over their books and found out that it was a different John Moore. Sir John, it turns out joined a lodge in Halifax when he was in America in the 1780s! I would never have guessed that. d'oh!

The Freemasons were more like an exclusive gentlemen's club, but masons at any time were apt to help one another if they could. So I guess if a mason had a choice between advancing a fellow mason and a non-mason, I'm pretty sure who he would choose. And since it was all about having the right connections, being a mason certainly did not do any harm to a young man's prospects. Wink

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:24 am Post subject:

Dearest Wellies,

sheep are a bit dumb, LOL, but they are so cute. And, ooooh, baby goats! I want one of those too!

As with all critters, they don't stay babies...but grow up, oh so quickly! As to sheep, in my readings (and alas I can't find it now) there was an RN sailor's writings that described the captain's pet sheep. The critter was allowed to wander around at will and was beloved by everyone. During the voyage when they were very short on rations the question of slaughtering the sheep wasn't even entertained. The sheep died (copper poisoning from licking the copper fittings) and a full funeral was held. Rolling Eyes

(my daughter wants a tarantula - over my dead body!)

lachtot

My youngest granddaughter is into snakes, has a pet one (as much as a snake can be a pet Shocked

) which seems to have grown a foot each year I visit. We have lots of snakes on the property, no poisonous--all good varmint-eaters. They are interesting, but I'm sort of neutral about them...Creepy crawly things (tarantulas and their ilk) I can do without, thankyouverymuch. heiss

Those foundling kittens are too cute though! I just want to cuddle them! Please give them a big cat cuddle from me!

daumen rauf

Done...they love lots of cuddles all anytime anyhoo, since they were 'humanized' at so young an age. At this point we call them the terroristas--they're at that age where they go tearing through (and tearing up) the house. Now they are insisting to go out of doors, and there was no stopping them--so they are tearing around outside. hurra

Regarding Freemasonry, there doesn't seem to be a complete list of Freemasons anywhere. If your captain's mentor is someone famous, it might be possible to find out by googling, otherwise it might take a good bit of detective work since they could have joined anywhere and anytime.

Googling (alas) isn't coming up with anything--but mentor's bio seems to lean in that direction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Marsden_(orientalist)

Since you have mentioned Nelson (and I can't think of that many famous sailors) here's a link on Nelson and Freemasonry:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/nelson_h/nelson_h.html

Thanks for the info, it would be too easy to make hero's mentor Nelson, but I'm thinking of casting my net further (Marsden). I was surprised to see that Tecumseh was a freemason though--that's way cool!

The Freemasons were more like an exclusive gentlemen's club, but masons at any time were apt to help one another if they could.

Indeed, we read about the importance of family connections at the time, but little is said of the masonic connections...

So I guess if a mason had a choice between advancing a fellow mason and a non-mason, I'm pretty sure who he would choose. And since it was all about having the right connections, being a mason certainly did not do any harm to a young man's prospects.

Strange; this conversation is reminding me of the movie: Peggy Sue Got Married--maybe because she's another time traveler of a sort, though at the end, her grandfather, who is a member of a masonic-like lodge, calls a meeting and the members perform a hokey ceremony that sends her back to her own time... Rolling Eyes

.... Well, first I need a plausible way to save (Ney) in the first place, preferrably one that does not require his co-operation or knowledge.

--Not sure how much of the following is strictly true, but it does give rise to the myth (as I said, you do make me google):

http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/history/napoleon.html

"The tenor of the trial emerged as a low key inquiry but Ney expected the conviction which followed. He was sentenced to death but, surprisingly, the sentence was to be carried out by firing squad instead of the customary guillotine. Furthermore, in December 1815, instead of the usual public notice and public spectacle, Ney was removed from his prison cell and taken to an out-of-the-way spot in the Luxembourg Gardens. There, according to official documents, he was executed, his body secretly sprinted away, and buried in a hidden grave."

(Ney) spoke German (he was born in a town on the border that changed nationality several times) and French, but no English. He could learn, of course, but well enough to teach?

Of course that would depend--North Carolina is not exactly the frontier (perhaps the western part?), but on the frontier some schoolteachers were displaced Europeans of less than adequate command of the language, though immersion is the quickest way to learn. update:--checked googleearth and yes, Salisbury, NC is indeed in the western part of the state. Interestinck; verry, verry interestinck! Think

My heroine is forced to act the perfect lady in order to do what she was sent to do, but it does annoy her. It is what is expected of her. Doesn't help that her late husband left her with a title and a good bit of money (well, the money comes in quite handy but she doesn't really want to use the title).

Well, we all know that $$ comes in handy...alas, my poor heroine has none. And being (finally!) judged a lady of the time, she has no way to make some without becoming ummmmm, less of a 'lady'? Wink

I would think port authorities to have more records of who arrived in what ship than embassies, simply because people might not have gone to their respective embassy. .... But I know what you mean - it's so hard to get those little details right. And the devil really is in the details...

Aye, that's what I'm thinking (at least at the time period), I suppose I could hedge it a bit and have him return from his shore calls and tell her something to the effect that there's no record of her or her companions on any ship in the past three years or so....But I am also thinking of the ending when he is to marry her, as all good HEAs should be, does he just make up her ID? Uses his influence and/or name to establish it? Another aspect I'm keeping fluid is, is my Capt. a Sir? a baronet? (for services rendered--and totally deserved--like Capt. Sir Edward Pellew--as Pellew introduces himself to his crew in the Hornblower series Very Happy

). I do so like the idea of my heroine at the end being addressed as "Lady E_____." niedermayr anbeten

She still retains the honorific Mr. W_____, Ma'am, as the surgeon. Eh?

I hope you reaped lots of goodies for your birthday, my Nelson's Navy just came in yummmy! And I found out that "1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1406588520/ref=s9_k2af_r3_i0?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-3&pf_rd_r=0HWRN5ENE4GH28XTPE4D&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470937931&pf_rd_i=507846

can be ordered! So of course in the interest of saving paper and laserink, I ordered it, and then since it was only $9 had to order yet another book from my wishlist to make the total come to $25 for free shipping LOL... Dancing

With utmost pleasure and respect and many happy returns,

Wentworth
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