Titles

Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

I'm new here and not sure if this question has been asked but I'm curious about something.

Let's say the Earl of Somewhere and the Countess of Somewhere have a daughter, who would be addressed as Lady Firstname Lastname, and they have no sons and noone to inherit the title should the earl die. Now, the earl dies and the title would revert back to the Crown. The Earl of Somewhere is no more. Does the countess get to keep her title even though her husband has died and his has gone back to the Crown? What about his daughter? And if not, how will they be addressed now? Do they lose their prestigious standing in society as well?

Upstart Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 8

Wouldn't the title pass to another male heir in the family, like a nephew or cousin?

Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

There is no male heir and the title would revert back to the Crown. Once it has gone back to the Crown, I'm stuck. I'm not sure if his widow and daughter would keep their titles once he's gone.

Upstart Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject:

NoirFemme, thanks for those details!!

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Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

I just stumbled across this site yesterday and I spent much of the morning browsing around. It has a wealth of information and a great discussion board. I'm sure I'll discover alot of interesting things here. Thanks again.

Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

That was great information, NoirFemme, and I read through it all but I think that would change the whole tone of my story. My heroine has to be left with not a whole heck of a lot and I'm thinking that if the title was held in abeyance, she would have access to his estate.

I guess I could go a step further and explain the situation. My heroine, the earl's daughter, married a commoner some years ago. Her husband owned a small farm and was subsequently killed in a duel on the night he gambled away the farm. The heroine goes home to her father's estate only to find him on his deathbed. When he dies, she is informed by her father's solicitor that he left everything that wasn't entailed to his wife (the heroine's stepmother). Therefore, she is virtually penniless and at the mercy of her stepmother when the story begins. The entailed estate, I believe, would have reverted back to the Crown too, or am I wrong about that? I don't know if the countess would remain a countess or if she would become a mere Mrs.

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

The countess is still a countess. The estate may or may not revert to the crown with the title, depending on a host of VERY complicated things that may have taken place over the years (by the Regency, most great estates had been legally finagled in such a way that they were no longer linked in the way that caused them to revert to the crown).

The thing that concerns me here is that no stipulation was made for the daughter's inheritance in her mother's marriage settlements? Normally this is legally spelled out to prevent exactly the scenario you're aiming at.
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Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

Maybe I'm getting too complicated with my scenario but I need my heroine to be down on her luck, otherwise my whole story isn't going to work. Actually, her father left her a great deal of money but she is oblivious to this fact until nearly the end. The reason she remains oblivious is because the solicitor and her stepmother are in cahoots. Is that doable? If it's not, she's going to have to become a poor, impoverished woman selling oranges on the street.

Your opinion is greatly appreciated!

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject:

The daughter keep her Lady Firstname title until she dies, or marries higher up; the step-mother keeps her title until she re-marries.

As for your countess-and-solicitor-in-cahoots scenario, yes, you can make that work if the solicitor has been working with the family for years and is the only one with all the financial info at hand. You just have to make sure there isn't someone else who would logically know the truth of your heroine's inheritance, ie a banker or someone the late earl might have told, etc.
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Upstart Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 16

First, I have to say I was thrilled when I looked at my post this morning and saw the Queen of the Board had replied to my post! Not that I don't appreciate any and all opinions because I do, but it was exciting nonetheless!

I'm relieved to find I don't have to change my story. When my heroine married her farmer, she dropped out of polite society, opting for the simple life with her husband. When she returns to London years later, nobody remembers her, really, and besides, she's in mourning for her father and her husband so she wouldn't be out and about anyway. When mourning is over, she is basically penniless and not "allowed" to go out anyway, per her stepmother. Her stepmother wants her off her hands. The solicitor has been involved with the family for years and the hero of the story, when she meets him, and when he finally unravels the mystery of who she really is, will be the one who logically knows she should have inherited something.

So that's it. I have my answer. Thanks everyone so much for helping me solve this mystery!