courtesy titles

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: courtesy titles

I have some questions about the courtesy titles. In my story, there are three generations of males (my heroine's 19 year old twin brother, her father and her grandfather). The Grandfather is a Duke, and her Father as his heir was given the courtesy title of Marquess. Are the courtesy titles generally given at birth or once the young man reached his "majority"?

My heroine's Father and her Grandfather had a large falling out some 15 years before the start of my story and do not acknowledge each other. I know the Grandfather couldn't disinherit his son, but I feel that in the aftermath of the fight if he had the power he might refuse his son the right to the courtesy title (which had already been granted). He would not however deny his grandson his right to use his courtesy title, but if it was not granted at birth, then the brother would not have one at the time in my story. How would he be addressed (as the eldest son of an eldest son) without one? His Honourable? Would he be called Mr.? And if the Father can no longer use his courtesy title how would he be referred to?

And how would my heroine be introduced? as Lady firstname lastname? Or Lady firstname, daughter of Lord X?

Thanks for any input!

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

You might want to check out the wikipedia page on courtesy titles, which has some interesting information on how they work and how they are chosen.

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks so much! I wasn't sure if it was possible, but I thought in terms of characterization that the grandfather would be that vindictive during the immediate aftermath of the argument.

So if I want my family to be an old influential family, I should skip the Marquess and go strait to Earl? I think I like that better.

So how would someone introduced the heroine to the hero (who is also the heir to a dukedom)? “My Lord Danforth may I present Lady Madeline” Would they use her lastname (I haven’t thought of one yet- and hope I won’t need to)? Would they mention her father is Lord Perth? Would he be presented to her? (I’m assuming as a man he would outrank her, but her family is much older-when his father dies my hero will become the 3rd Duke, while my heroine’s grandfather is currently the 11th Duke). These things are so complicated! But fun!

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject:

First, I can't imagine the grandfather could revoke the courtesy title. I don't know that there is any legal reason why he couldn't, but there might in fact be some restrictions in the letters patent granting the title(s) that preclude him revoking any of them as courtesy titles. In any case, it would seem like a difficult thing to get away with socially, if not legally. To be safe, I just wouldn't go there. The grandfather would, though, be within his rights to take away a promised property. Even if said property was part of his entail and would eventually pass to his son upon his death, he could certainly deny his son use of the property while he, the duke, lived.

Also, your heroine, as the daughter of an earl (or marquess, whichever you decide), is styled Lady Firstname.

As for the introduction, the lower ranking person, regardless of gender, is always presented TO the higher ranking person. If your hero is eldest son of a duke, he outranks the granddaughter of a duke. Therefore, she would be presented to him.
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Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:27 am Post subject:

is there any kind of formal ceremony involved when an earl dies and his son the viscount inherits the title of earl?

Viscountess of the Manor Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1100

Upstart Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 15

Somehow I am not clear on one particular point about this topic.

While the first son is using his courtesy title (marquis) and his father (duke) is still living, are the first son's legitimate daughters "lady firstname" ?

I'd be ever so grateful if someone would set me straight on this. Smile

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:32 am Post subject:

Upstart Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 15

Thank you so much! Very Happy

I couldn't find that particular bit spelled out. I would see that the second son's children were plain "Miss" or "Mr" but nothing about the children of a courtesy title holder, especially if the elder son died after having children but before he could inherit.

I mean it seems common sense but then again sometimes in research common sense (assuming) can get me into trouble.

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: